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Community > Using Xero >

PayPal Automatic Import issues

Started by Fergus Macdonald -   in Using Xero

One of the main reasons I started using Xero is the fact that it integrates with many of the systems we use, including PayPal.

Unfortunately, since starting to use it, I've found that PayPal Automatic Import has serious problems, which at the moment, mean it is not working at all on our account.

We started using Xero from 01/01/2012 and on 24/02/2012 we set up automatic import. We set it up after we started using Xero because it has the functionality to go back to a particular date and pull all transactions from that date forward – therefore I didn’t feel the need to start it on the day we started using Xero.

Unfortunately after setting up automatic import, I found out that if you have ‘a lot’ of transactions, it won’t go back and import them all, it will just start on the day you set it up. Great – if I’d known that on the 1st January, I would have started it on that day!

Looking at the import statements, I also noticed that every day it imports a large number of transactions, and then deletes the ones which it thinks are duplicates. While this should provide a safeguard to ensuring all transactions are imported – it doesn’t seem like the most efficient way of doing it. However, I’ve not examined the PayPal API so my comments are purely sceptical.

About 10 days after starting to use PayPal auto import I imported a manual statement for the period 01/01/2012 to 24/02/2012. Since I did that on the 04/03, PayPal auto import has stopped working completely. No new transactions have been imported since that day. It’s still turned on and set up, but is not pulling any data.
I’ve contacted Xero support about both of these issues and have not received any information on when this is going to be resolved. On the 18/03 I got a rather worrying email telling me that people with ‘higher amounts of transactions’ may be affected by some issues and could I confirm how many transactions we have and if that is a stable number or is growing with time.

I don’t consider us to process large amounts of transactions, but unique PayPal statement lines are around 3-4,000 per month (listing fee transactions separately). I would infer from this that Xero’s PayPal functionality is not designed to handle this many transactions.

Unfortunately Xero hasn’t really given me any more information than above. I’ve had a number of emails saying ‘sorry we’ve not got back to you’ after I chase them up when they don’t reply for 10-15 days or more, and then they usually follow that with ‘we’re looking into this and will get back to you’.
As I feel that I’m not really getting anywhere with Xero support and I have no idea when this is likely to be resolved, I thought I would share this with others so that they can get some information on issues with PayPal before making decisions about whether to use Xero.

Is anyone else experiencing similar problems?

Fergus Macdonald  

37 days after Xero stopped importing PayPal and 12 hours after writing this ticket I got the following email from Xero support:


Really sorry for the delay in our response to your email.

Ironically Xero is often not a good fit as an accounting solution for online stores unless you have other systems that process transactions and you are passing summary ledger entries into Xero via our API.

Basically our system limits are as follows (as outlined in our FAQs API overview http://blog.xero.com/developer/api-overview/#systemlimit) :

Xero is designed for volumes of between 200 – 500 invoices per month, dependent also on the frequency of invoicing during the month, variability of amounts and the frequency of sales tax reporting requirements.

Bank Transactions – Spend & Receive Money
Xero is designed for volumes of up to around 1,000 bank transactions per month, also dependent on the frequency of transactions during the month and variability of transaction values.

Inventory Items
Inventory item lists of greater than 1,000 could cause performance issues for users invoicing via methods other than the API.

Contact lists of greater than 5,000 could cause performance issues for users utilizing Xero via methods other than the API.

Xero will work with higher levels than this but the performance of some features and reports may become degraded."

If you are growing rapidly and exceed the limits described above you will find that you experience problems with the UI and reporting.

We really don't want you to invest your time setting up Xero if it is not going to be suitable for your requirements long term so regretfully based on the transaction volumes you describe need to advise that Xero is not going to be suitable as an accounting solution for your business.

In the future I do hope we are able to deliver better news with the release of an enterprise product that meets your needs but at this stage is not scheduled for the immediate future.

We wish you success with your business and will suspend your billing for 2 months to give you time to transition from Xero to another accounting solution.

Best regards

Fergus Macdonald  

Hi Fergus, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've had and we'll take on board your comments about making API limits more prominent. We're growing quickly and perhaps some assumptions we made 2-3 years ago about this kind of information should be reviewed.

Also, it's not great that you had to wait so long for a reply. Sorry.

Why do we have limits?

Because we're a web app that's supporting tens of thousands of concurrent users most times of the day, our application delivery platform requires that integrations and automated data imports must be regulated quite carefully to ensure that customers with huge transaction volumes don't unwittingly degrade performance for everyone else. So, limits ensure that everyone (well, mostly everyone) gets a great experience.

We achieve this in a number of ways, including throttling the kinds and number of API calls that external developer apps make on Xero.

Although it may not be obvious, the PayPal transaction feed is in effect a third party import process that routes through our API and is therefore subject to the general constraints we apply to all API engagements. Your negative experiences suggest that we perhaps don't make this as clear as we should, so we'll take this on board.

Gary Turner (Xero Staff)  

Hi Gary,

Impressed to get such a fast response - thanks.

First of all, I think Xero is a great product. I also understand the requirement for API limits and for usage limits to ensure a consistent experience for all users.

However, during the last 12 months I've spent many hours/days/£s getting our systems set up to integrate with Xero properly. I would estimate 100's of my hours, 1000's of pounds and some fundamental changes to our bookkeeping and accounting practices. I invested that time because it's very well publicised that Xero integrates with E-Commerce applications, PayPal, Banks etc. No where on those pages or in any marketing material for Xero did I see anything relating to any kind of usage limits.

I don't think we're a particularly big company, and I think that integrating with platforms like Magento and PayPal means tapping into a community where 200-500 sales per month is very much at the small end of the scale.

I haven't had the impression so far that Xero is marketed as a small business only tool.

While I fully accept responsibility for moving forward with Xero, I feel that there is a void between how the product is advertised and it's recommended usage limits. My primary purpose of starting this thread is to make other people aware that this is a significant issue.


Fergus Macdonald  

You make a good point about company size.

I'm often asked generally about Xero's fit for different sizes of company but the reality is that company size is only one variable in the equation. You could be a huge business with very simplistic financial management or low transaction volumes and get on just fine with Xero or, as in your case, you could be a small business with disproportionately large or complex needs compared with the majority of small businesses. I'm not suggesting that small businesses with large transaction volumes are odd, just a distinct category of small business compared with the majority.

So, ultimate fit is always a function of size, complexity or transaction volumes (or all three) regardless of whether you're assessing Xero or SAP.

We've always positioned Xero as a small business app - if we don't explicitly call that out in our marketing we assume the low cost should be a good guide, and we certainly don't have aspirations to become an enterprise customer software business - that's a whole other ball game.

It sucks that we messed you around and we will learn from that. If we'd made it clearer from the outset, you could well have identified another import method or route that worked and saved you the pain.

Gary Turner (Xero Staff)  

Yes, that's a good point. Although I think about us as 'small' doesn't mean that we tick all boxes for the average small business.

Do you see these 'limits' changing? IE do you think you will work towards making Xero handle a business that has 1000 orders per month or more?

Fergus Macdonald  

We're definitely tuning up the PayPal importer to enable us to better accomodate the growth in user numbers, but it's hard to precisely quantify the extent to which (or even whether) that will enable us to cater for larger volume transaction imports through the API.

Happy to report back here in a few weeks when that work has been completed and what the implications of it are.

Gary Turner (Xero Staff)  

OK thanks.

I'm also concerned with things like number of customers and number of invoices. If we're putting 2000 invoices a month into Xero with unique customers, in a years time or 2 years time - how is that going to fair? Or, do you recommend that we simply don't do that and find a way to put accumulated data into Xero?

Fergus Macdonald  

@Fergus We do recommend that in certain scenarios. It's one approach that we've been dappling with ourselves (since we invoice an ever growing number of unique customers per month). In our case we have a subsidiary system that does the invoicing and then write the summary information on a daily basis (in the form of a journal). What you lose is the high resolution of that data within the accounting system - so you need to be able to link back to the subsidiary system for that transaction level detail (it's a very similar model to what a lot of our partner integrations like Vend (POS) do - just writing the summary journals at the end of the day). So what you're suggesting is absolutely possible and a great way to do it. What e-commerce software do you use?

Having said that it's not a requirement to move to that model. Part of our challenge is to scale with the small businesses that are running on Xero. We want those businesses to be successful and to grow, but not outgrow Xero too quickly as they do that. In many respects Xero as a business is in the same boat - we started out small and have grown over the last 6 years and still use Xero as our accounting system.

So it is our responsibility to build out our platform in such a way that we can deal with an ever growing number of customers as well as small businesses that are growing in their own right. We are constantly working on this. Those API limits are in many respects quite arbitrary based on what we've experienced with our larger customers. These will change over time as we re-architect certain parts of the application that we didn't expect to require high volumes (inventory items is a good example of that).

Just a note on PayPal - we've done a lot of work on this recently that we're hoping to have live in the next couple of weeks (just doing final testing now) - so hopefully that solves some of your issues. Our "bank feed" with PayPal requires us to use an API that has it's own issues (and also it's own set of limits) - so this has been a constant struggle.

CTO @ Xero

Craig Walker (Xero Staff)  

Hi Craig,

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to personally respond - I'm sure that other business owners considering Xero will find this very useful.

At present we use Magento for website sales and we also sell on eBay and Amazon. When looking into Xero, because there was transaction level integration with PayPal, and most of the integration tools for Magento do so on a transaction level, I didn't really consider doing it on a daily/weekly/monthly summary basis.

I've not looked into the possibility, but I'm not aware of anything that would provide us with that functionality - however, I will look into it and report back if I find anything.

From my perspective, I don't feel that I need transaction level integration with Xero - I would be happy with daily/weekly or monthly totals. However, because we are UK based and sell worldwide - we deal with a number of different VAT situations, and we get retroactive refunds, so doing daily totals manually would be very difficult. We would need a third party system to collate and process the information.

I might also look into stopping reporting of Customer Names into Xero as we don't really need that either, and if it stops our Customer list from getting clogged up, that might be worthwhile.

I guess my big decision at the moment is do we keep using Xero as we have been, do we find a different way to use Xero, or do we find a different system. Personally I would prefer one of the first two.


Fergus Macdonald  

While responding to a support ticket, I was reminded that I got an email detailing why Xero had failed to import selected PayPal transactions. I only found this out after manually checking a period of transactions and noticing that some were missing. The email said:

IN the file you sent through there are four transactions which you've found haven't imported into Xero.

Two of them are Express Checkout Payments which were uncleared when first posted and two are payments which have been partially refunded.

The transactions which are currently available for us to import are those with a status of Cleared, Completed or Reversed. This is to ensure that only actual balance affecting or cleared transactions are imported into Xero. Because the Express Checkout Payments were uncleared, they were not imported. It appears that the payment from Lee Carroll did in fact clear however and we would need to do some investigation to determine why that transaction was missed. Our Product team are in the process of overhauling the PayPal integration at the moment and when completed, anomalies like this will be rooted out.

We are aware of an issue at the moment where some refund transactions aren't importing into Xero from PayPal.

When the payment is initially made in PayPal the transaction has a status of Completed. When it is refunded, however, the status changes to Refunded. If the status changes to Refunded within the daily import period the transaction will fail to import as Refunded is not one of the statuses we are able to import .

We are hoping to have a fix for these within the coming months but in the meantime, if you find that these transactions are not imported you can enter them and manually mark as reconciled (in the absence of an imported statement line).

Have a look at our Help Centre for a guide on creating transactions in Xero and manually marking them as reconciled

Xero Help Centre: Add a Spend Money transaction or Add a Receive Money transaction

Xero Help Centre: Reconcile a transaction without a bank statement

We apologise for the inconvenience of these transactions sometimes not importing, we are working on fixing this as quickly as possible.

Fergus Macdonald  

So just to be get a better understanding - it would appear from that this discussion that Xero might not be the best choice for an e-commerce company - if you want to import daily transactions into Xero.

For a small e-commerce merchant with ~100 transactions per week (not a very large number of transactions for even a small e-commerce business)

In one year it will have say 5200 transactions/invoices in the system with ~5000 customers (assuming most are one off customers)

From the capacities above it sounds like within 1 year let alone subsequent years an e-commerce business will have out grown Xero?

Surely this cannot be the case? I am half way through an implementation on Xero and now wondering whether it is going to suit my needs?

I like how Xero works - but now have concerns - particularly as Saasu has unlimited transactions and inventory incorporated into the product.

It seems that Xero has been architected around a service based business rather than a product sales based business.

Could someone please shed some light on these issues and advise whether Xero is suited to an e-commerce business


Glen Farebrother  

@Glen - with the current invoicing volumes you're generating each month I think individual invoicing in Xero will work well for you. I presume you have reasonably strict payment terms and customers are paying you by bank transfer so at any one time you shouldn't have a large number of outstanding customers which will mean your list of customers on your aged receivable report and statements (if you use them) should be a manageable size.

Consider regularly archiving your contacts (perhaps once a month) for all your one off sales so you keep things nice and lean in Xero.

Alternatively, consider the daily summary approach if you don't need to generate a Xero invoice for each sale. This can be handy if you receive a lot of payments via credit card and you're receiving a single amount in your bank account each day for those sales. This makes for an efficient bank reconciliation process as you'll be matching one to one (one statement line to just one daily summary invoice) rather than one to many.

Tony Rule (Xero Staff)  


Has anyone used "other systems that process transactions and you are passing summary ledger entries into Xero via our API" See the comment below as response from Xero regarding PayPal transactions.

"Ironically Xero is often not a good fit as an accounting solution for online stores unless you have other systems that process transactions and you are passing summary ledger entries into Xero via our API."

I'm trying to eliminate double handling of sales information, once in PayPal/E-Commerce side, then once again in Xero. I'd prefer to push through daily settlements, rather than individual Accounts Receivable Invoices.

Melanie Huxley-Smith  

@Gary - Have you considered offering a 'dedicated server' solution for customers that may overload your system? This will have the 'stand alone' convenience for heavier customers, but also separate them from your shared environment.
I am also amazed that SAAS companies still have storage and processing limitation in this day and age, when 1TB hard drive is less than $100, CPU and memory are cheap, and especially when virtualization makes your infrastructure so much easier to manage and grow. Do you know that gmail provides 8GB disk space per customer for FREE? How many millions of customers do they have?

BTW: PayPal is terrible to work with, almost in every aspect. Try to get a monthly report from their website.

Oren Yehezkely  

Looks like they have given some much needed attention to their hosting situation. I'm guessing the key issue is growth. Google already had a massive indexing machine with a huge number of servers before they started offering Gmail, and they started it at 2GB and grow it very slowly, up to it's current 10GB.

Xero is small, and growing quickly which is a difficult thing to manage.

It's probably worth noting that the only issues I experienced previously with scale were exporting VAT returns, and yesterday, that worked fine. I was also able to download an invoice report with some 25,000 lines no problem (I did encounter an issue with a 50,000 line one though - but appreciate that's asking a lot!).

Fergus Macdonald  

@Gulli - I do appreciate your viewpoint, but comparing the inherent complexities of hosting an email app versus full service accounting, believe me - email is much, much less complex being essentially a single, one dimensional database - and therefore more easily scalable.

There's a reason why none of the big guys like Google or Microsoft have tackled accounting at scale - it's hard!

Job one for Xero is addressing the fact that a huge majority of small businesses don't use an accounting app to run their business, and those who do often struggle with the archaic design, inflexibility and expensive running cost of desktop accounting apps.

Be assured that it frustrates us that we can't win all the small business customers regardless of how complex their needs may be and while we would like to find a way to better handle very high volume scenarios one day, it's just not a priority for us right now.

Gary Turner (Xero Staff)  

Any news on sorting out the faulty import of refunds in Paypal? They are still coming through wrongly months after we first reported the problem.
Also, any chance of fixing the Paypal "reconciliation" to make it a true reconciliation, instead of ignoring the Paypal balance?

Stephen Wilson  

Hi I have had an issue with paypal for a number of months now whereby items paid for in USD through a GBP account are coming through at the USD transaction amount rather than GBP - Support have been aware for a number of months but they say it is still being investigated?

Lauren Harvey  

My problem with paypal is that it is importing duplicate lines (AU feed). Annoying, but not a dealbreaker when you know that's what is going on. Paypal is just a nuisance for accounting, and we just have to make the best of it, I reckon.

Tim Cockfield  

It's really simple Xero - if PayPal feeds do not function as expected (and believe me they do not) then disable the feature until it works. Promising a feature and then discovering it's broken is worse than not offering the feature to begin with. Grrrr. Now investigating Saasu.com as an alternative.

Troy Dean  

Are these issues considered fixed, or are they still ongoing?

I have 4 company accounts with Xero. Three are very basic - few line items per month. The newest is for a business processing 5,000+ PayPal orders per month.

That's 10k line items (PayPal sales + fees) just incoming... about 500 outgoing. Then 5 credit cards with 50+ line items each, several bank accounts, etc. Three currencies + VAT to deal with.

Is this going to be scalable? We're not a particularly big company; this is pretty standard stuff for an active e-commerce site.

Are we going to run into issues?

Lee Benson  

"@Gulli - I do appreciate your viewpoint, but comparing the inherent complexities of hosting an email app versus full service accounting, believe me - email is much, much less complex being essentially a single, one dimensional database - and therefore more easily scalable."

@Gary, you've got an amazing app here, and I cannot fault the feature set... but if you've got problems with scalability, it's an infrastructure/design issue and frankly, that quote was ridiculous.

Google haven't tackled the problem because they're not in the accounting business - not because they lack the hardware or software resources to achieve it. Have you actually used Google Docs?

Take Gmail - they have 425 million users, and literally EVERY character from every e-mail you send and receive is indexed and searchable. That's 4.25 exabytes of storage space, ALL searchable. I have a 25GB enterprise box and I can find e-mail going back 5 years in 0.5 seconds from 2 keywords. Not to mention Google ads, oh and the fact that they've downloaded and indexed the entire Internet. One-dimensional indeed.

I love your features, and your current success and growth is commendable. However, there's no reason in 2013 you should be running into scalability issues, period. AWS lets you spawn thousands of servers in minutes. Storage space is infinite and pennies per GB. Databases can be sharded, run with guaranteed IOPs or even run peer-to-peer. You can route front-end traffic to 1,000 servers with a decent cloud proxy.

At the very least, until this stuff has been resolved, maybe let your customers know they'll run into these limits BEFORE they sign-up to a payment plan that claims "100s of invoices monthly"?

Lee Benson  

Sorry for the third post, but since I've just spent around £5k in accounting and development time setting Xero up on the assumption that Cloud Accounting = Reasonable Scalability, I'm pretty shocked to see some of the comments of staff.

Like this...

"We've always positioned Xero as a small business app - if we don't explicitly call that out in our marketing we assume the low cost should be a good guide, and we certainly don't have aspirations to become an enterprise customer software business - that's a whole other ball game."

The problem with that notion is that businesses are typically in business to make money... and that usually means they have aspirations of growth. They expect an accounting app that grows with them.

You can't really be in this biz and pick and choose your audience -- only where they start. You don't use Sage and then one day wake up to find it says 'sorry, you're making too much money! cannot account for it all.'. By default, business means growth, or at least the prospect of it.

The problem becomes when we've spent tons of money and time (like most people on this board) to integrate Xero into custom order processes, e-commerce sites and - heck - even chosen our accountants based on their Xero experience, only to find that getting 'unstuck' because we grew beyond your expectations of us as users... is very difficult.

I'm a small business. I'm not asking you to process Walmart's transactions, just the 150 or so people per day that visit my site and download one of my software products. With your current limits, I hit the invoicing threshold on day 3... so can't go that route. Instead, I'm forced to rely on PayPal's automated feeds, which currently means...

a) there's a large chance that many of the transactions I'm importing are going to go missing, wind up deleted, get duplicated or otherwise make reconciling transactions a giant pain in the arse.

b) VAT/sales tax gets ignored, since the PayPal feed currently only displays 'gross'. Not ideal when my customers are from 200 different countries, with 26 different rates of VAT.

Yes, this stuff is tough to fix, but please - just do it already. All I see on this board from staff is that it's 'really, really hard to scale'. Yeah. That's the cloud software biz. I'm pretty sure Facebook had a couple of those issues, too. But you're making a ton of money and we're relying on you to file our tax returns and account for our livelihoods, so how about just fixing it?

Lee Benson  

@Lee Absolutely - you're 100% right. And that's what we're doing. There are lots of mini-projects at Xero that are purely platform focused. There are no timeframes per se - just lots of incremental improvements. What you're hitting are soft limits - we don't enforce those limits because we're working to eliminate them.

You noted that this stuff is hard - and it's a constantly moving target. We are always going to be small business focused - but as you also noted the definition of small business is fuzzy.

There are dueling issues in this thread - I can't really talk to the PayPal stuff though I know we're working with PayPal to make that feed better.

CTO @ Xero

Craig Walker (Xero Staff)  

I wondered if there is any update on this issue?

In our case we would not need every 'sale' from our PayPal feed, instead we would be happy with a daily consolidation. Would this not be a viable feature to implement to keep the majority of people happy?

Catherine Temple  

I am a new user of Xero. I agree with Catherine - I am pulling my hair out having imported 3 paypal statements from our thee currencies. We are a small business with 100's of small transactions per month. Surely I do not have to press OK for every single little fee I am reconciling via a "rule"? and I have created one invoice for each currency for all sales but how do I allocate every single currency payment to that invoice?

Bea Shrewsbury  

Hi - we have just started the trial after recommendation by an accountant. We will have 3000+ PayPal incoming transactions a month as well as two normal bank accounts. Can Xero handle this as we have to make a final decision soon?


Chris Gurney  

Hey Chris this is the kind of thing you'll need to talk to Support about. To discuss your needs with Xero's capabilities give them an email at support(at)xero(dot)com.

Brittany H (Community Manager)  

Thanks Brittany for the response. I will take note of the support email. BTW I opened Xero today and I had 7500 transactions to reconcile since 21st Jan so that answers my capability question!

Chris Gurney  

Oh wow! Good luck with all the reconciling ;) If it ends up taking you a while, you might want to try Cash Coding, or bulk importing your invoices!

Brittany H (Community Manager)  

We offer solution to the problem of managing large scale businesses with huge volume of invoices or transactions in Xero. We will manage your accounts in such a way, that Xero will work perfectly, with any large volume of sale invoices or transactions and you can keep on enjoying this beautiful cloud software. We are Xero certified partner . To Find out more , please contact Skype : Higro.llc or email us at info@higro.us.

Fahim Golani  


We offer solution to the problem of managing large scale businesses with huge volume of invoices or transactions in Xero. We will manage your accounts in such a way, that Xero will work perfectly, with any large volume of sale invoices or transactions and you can keep on enjoying this beautiful cloud software. We are Xero certified partner .

To Find out more , please contact
Skype : Higro.llc
email us at info@higro.us.

Fahim Golani  

Merged: Paypal - Consolidate fee and sale amount to one statement line

I'm looking for a way to automatically import daily consolidated PayPal transactions into Xero. With the built-in Xero--PayPal interface, we get two transactions per PayPal sale, one for the sale amount and one for the PayPal fee. We don't need details of each transaction though, all this data clutters our Xero database, and it requires two "OK" presses per transaction. I would like to get just a few summary numbers from PayPal: total sales, total fees, returns, etc., once a day.

There's a thread from 3 years ago ( https://community.xero.com/business/discussion/73441 ) which touches on this subject. Apparently there wasn't a good solution at the time. Has anyone found an efficient way to handle larger volumes of PayPal sales since then?

Dean Verhoeven  

Hi Dean

First, let me appreciate the fact that you have raised an issue that has been faced by almost all the eCommerce business owners.

Manually handling the payment fee for your store orders is really cumbersome. We, at ZapStitch, offer solution to this with our 'Payment Fee Tracking' Feature.

With ZapStitch, you need not manually handle and account for daily PayPal transactions. It will automatically calculate and separately import the data into your Xero under expense account.

Do let me know if you have any other query regarding this.


Vijay Khandekar  

Thanks for jumping in here, Vijay. Just to confirm that we don't have any plans to change how this feed works, but do keep up to date on that thread you'd linked earlier.

Brittany H (Community Manager)  

Unfortunately Paypal transactions are occasionally imported inaccurately in any online accounting software. Over past few years I have resolved this matter for many of my clients. If you have issue with Paypal transactions please contact me at ca.abdul@gmail.om or post your query here.

CA Abdul